tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post6928083868418847881..comments2023-10-04T09:50:08.070-05:00Comments on Logismoi: 'I, Too, Was Included in Her Prayer'—Søren KierkegaardAaron Taylorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17775589009145031773noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-67363161478495634512010-05-06T13:40:08.287-05:002010-05-06T13:40:08.287-05:00In short (and herewith I conclude), don't thin...In short (and herewith I conclude), don't think "Kierkegaard" when you think about truly "Lutheran" things. Get out your CDs of the B Minor Mass or the St. Matthew Passion instead. Think Bach. :-)Extollagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00580955213307049077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-28034703507934027912010-05-06T13:36:10.403-05:002010-05-06T13:36:10.403-05:00No need for apology, Aaron. You weren't at fa...No need for apology, Aaron. You weren't at fault. The chief fault for confusion about what "Lutheranism" is all about lies with professing "Lutherans" (here in America, also in Europe) who do not adhere to the Lutheran Confessions. This, I suppose, is the majority of "Lutherans." Others often cannot be blamed if they have mistaken ideas about "Lutheranism," given what the majority of "Lutherans" say and do. If "Lutheranism" was what is emitted by the ELCA, I would leave "Lutheran" circles immediately.Extollagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00580955213307049077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-76170688277611808672010-05-06T12:13:02.303-05:002010-05-06T12:13:02.303-05:00A friend from college lost his faith due in part t...A friend from college lost his faith due in part to K'gaard. His problem, I think, was that he was smart enough to read him before he was experienced enough to really be able to put him in context. <br /><br />Personally, I have little interest in K'gaard; what I have read has not made it seem imperative to read him.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-76835281002438000432010-05-06T11:22:56.660-05:002010-05-06T11:22:56.660-05:00Sorry, Extollager, I didn't mean to mislead or...Sorry, Extollager, I didn't mean to mislead or offend. I for one have certainly never considered him at all representative of Lutheranism! At any rate, you will note that I have edited the reference to his alleged 'sainthood' and referred readers to your disclaimer.Aaron Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17775589009145031773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-26868663851170761332010-05-06T10:22:46.399-05:002010-05-06T10:22:46.399-05:00I wrote, "In case anyone looking one."
...I wrote, "In case anyone looking one."<br /><br />Sorry. I meant, "In case anyone looking on."Extollagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00580955213307049077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-556937983373898812010-05-06T10:21:12.256-05:002010-05-06T10:21:12.256-05:00Kierkegaard may be well-regarded in Evangelical Lu...Kierkegaard may be well-regarded in Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) circles. This is the mainline "Lutheran" body, which is in pulpit and altar fellowship with some non-Lutheran denominations such as the United Church of Christ, the Reformed Church of America, etc.<br /><br />http://www2.elca.org/ecumenical/fullcommunion/Reformed/index.html<br /><br /><br />Years ago I visited an ELCA church in Willmar, Minnesota, in which the "nave" was constructed on a somewhat circular plan. Around the wall ran an alphabetized list of revered names, which I think included Berdyaev, Boehme, and Kierkegaard; but it is over 20 years since I was there and I didn't write the list down.<br /><br /><br />"Kierkegaard believes finitum non capax infiniti," according to a statement in this piece. This contradicts the Lutheran Confessions. It is to take the side of the Reformed rather than the Lutheran stance in one of their disputes. On the evidence of the source cited in my first paragraph, this would not be a problem for the ELCA, but it certainly would be for the Confessional Lutheran denominations.<br /><br /><br />The Lutheran Confessions and the denominations which adhere to them do not canonize people, perhaps because this would be inappropriate given the divided state of Christendom. We may, however, refer to "the Blessed Martin Chemnitz" or to "the sainted Dr. Hermann Sasse." <br /><br /><br />Again, I have no intention of launching apologetic efforts here! In case anyone looking one would take Kierkegaard as a representative "Lutheran" figure, however, I thought I should speak up. One can say that "Lutheran," like "Christian," is in the eye of the beholder; thus, to non-Christians, even Unitarianism may seem to belong to the family of Christian denominations. I don't think this approach is useful, though, as it obscures important differences; I would contend that Lutheran denominations believe, teach, and publicly confess the faith as expounded in the doctrinal statements of the sixteenth-century Lutheran Confessions (the Augsburg Confession, etc.). These comprise a standard according to which one may determine whether a theologian or a denomination is "Lutheran." I would ask fair-minded readers of this blog either not to refer to Kierkegaard as Lutheran, or to do so with some qualifications, as (at least) a courtesy.Extollagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00580955213307049077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-46582748734661188732010-05-05T19:46:32.615-05:002010-05-05T19:46:32.615-05:00"the Dane argues that God’s command that the ..."the Dane argues that God’s command that the Patriarch Abraham sacrifice his son, Isaac, and the approval of Abraham’s willingness to do so when commanded, demonstrate that there is a level above that of ethical behaviour which a relationship with God requires. One might say that God is above the good, at least insofar as we understand it." <br />This is fascinating! It reminds me of the Aquinas Lecture given by Dr Al Plantinga at Marquette University in 1980, and entitled and published as 'Does God Have a Nature?, Milwaukee, Wis.: Marquette University Press, 1980, 146 pp., ISBN 0-87462-145-3. In the Review by Alfred J. Freddoso, University of Notre Dame we read, "In this lecture Alvin Plantinga proposes (p. 9) to discuss three questions: (i) does God have a nature? (ii) if so, is there a conflict between God's sovereignty and his having a nature? and (iii) how is God related to properties (including his nature), propositions, states of affairs, numbers, and other denizens of the Platonic realm of necessarily existing abstract entities? Plantinga's conclusions are straightforward: (i) God has a nature distinct from himself; (ii) the claim that God has a nature, while not incompatible with the belief that God is sovereign, does conflict with a common though mistaken intuition about God's sovereignty;and (iii) in whatever way we are ultimately to conceive of God's relation to his own nature and to other necessarily existing abstract entities, it is at any rate clear that God has no control over either their existence or their essential characteristics" <br />Of course, the above is not the teaching of Patristic Theology. The Patristic distinction between Essence, Energy and Hypostasis in God is the result of the experience of Theosis. Fr John Romanides in 'Patristic Theology'' p. 154<br />says, "Their theologians (Western) made distinctions that relied on metaphysics rather than experience". The Western idea that God is bound to act in a particular manner as if constrained by His Nature is the result of the rejection of the Patristic distinction between Essence and Energy in God, and also the rejection of the experience of the Fathers in Theosis. Fr John Romanides in p.53 of his book ''The Ancestral Sin' quotes St Justin's Çhristian Inquiries' addressing specifically the issue of creation (but of course the following applies to all the acts of God in His relation with the world)<br />"Though God is able to do all that He wills to do, He does not will to do all that He is able to do. To be is not the same as to will ...If God creates in His Being, it is by necessity that He creates whatever He creates<br />(this is the Western position-emphasis mine) But if it is by His will that He creates, (the Orthodox position-again emphasis mine), He creates out of sovereignty. Creating out of sovereignty , then, He creates as much as He wills, and whatever He wills and whenever He wills. If God creates in His Being, His will serves no purpose and is altogether useless"<br />In other words God is free and sovereign. The Patristic teaching stands in direct opposition to Thomas Aquinas and his successors. I think it is remarkable that Soren K. seems to have intuitively realized that there is something wrong with the scholastic understanding of God's nature.David Robleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08235222579213199067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-60303998895351883342010-05-05T17:30:16.075-05:002010-05-05T17:30:16.075-05:00Orr: It was the journal, so it was Kierkegaard him...Orr: It was the journal, so it was Kierkegaard himself, but intended for "future consumption". (The Journals were edited and revised, as part of what Kgaard thought of as the future key for the few readers who would wish to understand the whole. One trait he certainly didn't have was an overweening modesty: He was absolutely certain he'd have future readers who would want to read his personal journal.)Aristonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05941177388074392732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-35058239736695639132010-05-05T17:11:55.906-05:002010-05-05T17:11:55.906-05:00Yes, but which pseudonym was that? :)
Khomiakov m...Yes, but which pseudonym was that? :)<br /><br />Khomiakov must have been corresponding with Kierkegaard, too, not just Palmer. :)123https://www.blogger.com/profile/14514075641944568806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-7472064992967933362010-05-05T17:08:30.394-05:002010-05-05T17:08:30.394-05:00Orr: As for Kierkegaard's Lutheranism, here...Orr: As for Kierkegaard's Lutheranism, here's a quote from the journals I think this group can all appreciate:<br /><br />"Oh Luther, Luther! your responsibility is great indeed; for the closer I look the more clearly do I see that you overthrew the Pope––and set the public on the throne."Aristonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05941177388074392732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-88381503583423526402010-05-05T17:03:52.646-05:002010-05-05T17:03:52.646-05:00Orr: "Kierkegaard" is correct; it's ...Orr: "Kierkegaard" is correct; it's how he spelled it. For reference, the title page of The Point of View as an example (or his own signature, which is a little hard to read due to barely-there "g"). Despite the ligature-development of "Å", it doesn't represent the same sound in Danish as double-a, from how I've had it explained by Danes.<br /><br />I highly recommend Joakim Garff's biography, it's far more interesting for general readers than a selection of his works. It has a tendency towards over-psychologization of the Freudian sort, but I think any astute reader can correct for that readily.<br /><br />Kreeft's reading of F&T isn't unusual, I should say, but it is rarely made with reference to how Kierkegaard himself viewed the role of Johannes de Silentio in the "authorship" as a whole. I re-read the book last summer, and developed a slightly different view on it than I had been given in the prior reading because of this. In any case, it is best to attribute the views to the pseudonyms themselves as characters, rather than Kgaard proper; this is also why I turn my nose up at "collections" from his works.Aristonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05941177388074392732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-1084423658244376612010-05-05T13:08:51.456-05:002010-05-05T13:08:51.456-05:00I believe he's Muslim; if he's Sufi that&#...I believe he's Muslim; if he's Sufi that's as close as you can get to Orthodoxy without converting (since one story has it that Sufism is islamicized hesychasm/Orthodoxy). Whatever he is, "Bad MFer" is the very first thing to come to mind when you see him. Or, so I was told.<br /><br />I'll have to check those out. Howard and Edna Hong's introductions didn't seem to help all that much (and I really wanted them to since they are/were based in my native MN at St. Olaf College - yes, it exists, all you <i>Golden Girls</i> fans, I've been there). I do get the sense that Kierkegård's work has to be taken as the whole of his variously created voices speaking in dialogue with and diatribe against each other, so reading a work here or there rather than his entire corpus would be confusing.123https://www.blogger.com/profile/14514075641944568806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-44018090425271939292010-05-05T13:01:05.349-05:002010-05-05T13:01:05.349-05:00Is Richard Roundtree secretly an Orthodox intellec...Is Richard Roundtree secretly an Orthodox intellectual?<br /><br />I don't know if I'd say I enjoy reading Kierkegaard, but I'm greatly helped in understanding him by consulting secondary texts. Copleston is helpful, as is, more briefly, Alasdair MacIntyre's <i>Short History of Ethics</i>.Aaron Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17775589009145031773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-77408280186729555282010-05-05T12:36:35.410-05:002010-05-05T12:36:35.410-05:00I know someone who was found to be reading The Sic...I know someone who was found to be reading <i>The Sickness Unto Death</i> on location with <i>Beverly Hills 90210</i> at a mansion in the Hollywood Hills. It was preventative measures for his brain slurming out his ears. It was also a conversation stopper with Tori, I am told. (The same actor was found reading Meyendorff's <i>Byzantine Theology: Historical Trends and Doctrinal Themes</i> on the set of <i>Shaft</i>.)<br /><br />Schizo.<br /><br />I have always wanted to enjoy reading Kierkegård (maybe I just like saying his name, maybe it's because he was Lutheran), but never have. I'm not sure if that is the quality of his writing, his thought, his translators, or my ever-present desire to understand philosophy butting up against my perennial inability to do so.123https://www.blogger.com/profile/14514075641944568806noreply@blogger.com