tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post8111211220194142271..comments2023-10-04T09:50:08.070-05:00Comments on Logismoi: On Social Justice by St Basil the Great, ReviewedAaron Taylorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17775589009145031773noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-77604314610726012562014-11-08T20:51:12.213-06:002014-11-08T20:51:12.213-06:00I read this as an agenda too!
This is exactly wha...I read this as an agenda too!<br /><br />This is exactly what comes across to me by putting that title on the book:<br /><br /> ‘handy but oversimplified classification schemas that cater to modern intellectual fashions,Athanasiosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-62398327359186810282011-07-13T11:35:21.574-05:002011-07-13T11:35:21.574-05:00Just re-read this inspiring review and the comment...Just re-read this inspiring review and the comments. I needed this spiritual and intellectual nourishment today. Thanks, Aaron!Isaachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04085541008709908547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-59085413561993284142010-03-26T12:13:07.250-05:002010-03-26T12:13:07.250-05:00Thank you for your kind words, Father. I'm gla...Thank you for your kind words, Father. I'm glad to hear others have had the same reaction I did, and, though it's unfortunate, to have confirmed my impression of Fr Schroeder.<br /><br />In retrospect, I should probably have added that I do find the reminder of patristic teaching on wealth, poverty, and 'social justice' to be helpful. I don't believe that those of us Orthodox who are of a conservative political bent can in good conscience fall in line with a lot of our fellow conservatives' rhetoric on such issues. I don't think we can be Orthodox <i>and</i> uncritically support big business and Ayn Rand-style free-market capitalism. But like you said, we must always value dogma over political action, and individual salvation <i>is</i> important. If we become too focused on trying to make this world into a utopia, we fall into chiliasm.Aaron Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17775589009145031773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-82563633436453480842010-03-26T09:25:14.349-05:002010-03-26T09:25:14.349-05:00Thank you, Aaron, for your fine review. I have ben...Thank you, Aaron, for your fine review. I have benefited greatly from this translation of St. Basil's homilies on charity, but I, too, suspect Fr. Schroeder's reframing of the Cappadocian into modern, social justice terms. Let us remember, as you pointed out, that the reason why we detach ourselves from lesser things is to attach ourselves to the "greater things" of the Kingdom -- ultimately, the Holy Trinity.<br /><br />You will undoubtedly hear more from Fr. Schroeder. He will have much to say about social justice soon. <br /><br />But it will be in a rhetoric that diminishes dogma in favor of political action. And there will probably be nothing about "individual salvation," or avoiding perdition.Fr. Jonathannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-20339544405075909722010-03-24T08:44:34.834-05:002010-03-24T08:44:34.834-05:00Oh, no, Father, no need to apologise. What I was t...Oh, no, Father, no need to apologise. What I was trying to say was that I totally agree with you, and that I felt like I needed to apologise for this one use of the convention (which I normally eschew altogether).Aaron Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17775589009145031773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-1161175984093710842010-03-23T22:36:10.992-05:002010-03-23T22:36:10.992-05:00Please forgive my dyspepsia regarding "Pseudo...Please forgive my dyspepsia regarding "Pseudo-"<br /><br />It's one of my pet peeves. There are so many other ways to convey the same reservation - "in the tradition of," or "frequently attributed to," or whatever. To my impassioned ears, "Pseudo-" just sounds like an assault on the Tradition, that somehow it shouldn't be trusted and that hip, wiser-than-thou academics know better.St. Matthew the Apostle Orthodox Churchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06969240942813338416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-46617590358088245342010-03-23T16:04:38.386-05:002010-03-23T16:04:38.386-05:00Kevin> No, you weren't far wrong at all. Bu...Kevin> No, you weren't far wrong at all. But, I did think that putting such striking homilies on these topics together was a good idea <i>per se</i>.<br /><br />Fr Mark> Oh yeah, that's totally what I thought too. It sounds just like a parallelism. I like your question, 'Why tar it with the pejorative accusation?'!<br /><br />As for the 'Pseudo-', without knowing much at all about the arguments over authorship of this particular homily (beyond Fr Schroeder's claim that St Basil 'explicitly rejects the two-tiered approach' & this author doesn't), I wanted to allow for the possibility that the homily may have been wrongly attributed. That does not mean that I would follow a similar convention with regard to the authors of the <i>Macarian Homilies</i> or the <i>Corpus Dionysiacum</i>! Also, notice that I used 'Pseudo-Basil' in quotes!Aaron Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17775589009145031773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-65780218736714193482010-03-23T15:51:48.063-05:002010-03-23T15:51:48.063-05:00I really think this line is wonderful:
‘Eagerness...I really think this line is wonderful:<br /><br />‘Eagerness to serve holy people is accounted as reverence for Christ, and the one who eagerly ministers to the poor is shown to be a companion of Christ.’ <br /><br />Rather than reading it as a rather flat-footed "supersession," my first impression was that it follows the cadence of the Psalter. It's been more than a few years since I devoted any significant time to Hebrew verse, but I recall a certain classification of the varieties of parallelism described as "synthetic" - the second line restating and adding to the first, as in<br /><br />Who shall ascend the hill of the LORD?<br /> And who shall stand in his holy place? <br /><br />It's entirely appropriate to assume that St Basil's language would reflect the pattern of Scripture, thus employing some kind of parallelism. Why tar it with the pejorative accusation that a line about caring for holy people somehow "supersedes" call to care for the poor?<br /><br />And can we agree never, ever to use "Pseudo-" when referring to saints of the church and/or their writings?St. Matthew the Apostle Orthodox Churchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06969240942813338416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-69866511875139631362010-03-23T13:27:19.680-05:002010-03-23T13:27:19.680-05:00Very nice review, Aaron!
I have to admit that I a...Very nice review, Aaron!<br /><br />I have to admit that I almost didn't buy this volume, or was at least non-plussed by its appearance. My train of thought: On Social Justice will be merely a compilation of sermons of St Basil somehow related to the congeries of concerns now marching under the banner Social Justice, and the commentary will reflect the latter more than the former. All that from just the title! From your review, I see I am not far wrong.<br /><br />But then I thought I was just being a cynical jerk at the time, too.Kevin P. Edgecombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16590490181739464401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-17351978732176139882010-03-23T10:59:00.519-05:002010-03-23T10:59:00.519-05:00Matthew> I hope so too!
Anyone? Anyone at all?...Matthew> I hope so too!<br /><br />Anyone? Anyone at all?Aaron Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17775589009145031773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-10232198073040510192010-03-23T10:45:23.944-05:002010-03-23T10:45:23.944-05:00Thank you for this review. I am very interested i...Thank you for this review. I am very interested in reading this book, but when I do I'll be sure to skip the intro.<br /><br />I hope someone sends you a copy of St. Mark the Monk's new Popular Patristics book so you can review that one too!Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06922659552731758823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-85413569933744351472010-03-23T10:24:52.275-05:002010-03-23T10:24:52.275-05:00Andreas> It was unclear to me whether 'holy...Andreas> It was unclear to me whether 'holy people' & 'the poor' here were 2 distinct categories or were meant to be acquainted. Either way, I don't see how Fr Schroeder's assertion stands.<br /><br />John> I know what you mean about the agenda. I don't know anything about Fr Schroeder beyond this introduction, so I hesitate to question his motives. But this into definitely left a bad taste in my mouth. I even had to confine myself to the most grievous problems. I didn't even comment on the extended ethical analysis, which seemed determined to appeal to liberal academics.Aaron Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17775589009145031773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-1036814891501896882010-03-23T10:00:57.120-05:002010-03-23T10:00:57.120-05:00Thanks for the review. After reading the Introduct...Thanks for the review. After reading the Introduction, I must say I began to question if there was an agenda behind the translation.John https://www.blogger.com/profile/07111016099805416329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6714437334790446678.post-73167814533302775862010-03-23T00:30:57.451-05:002010-03-23T00:30:57.451-05:00Can we not recognise social and individual dimensi...<i>Can we not recognise social and individual dimensions in Christian ethics, and allow each their proper place?</i><br /><br />Bingo. Why is this so hard?<br /><br />Also,<br /><br /><i>‘Eagerness to serve holy people is accounted as reverence for Christ, and the one who eagerly ministers to the poor is shown to be a companion of Christ.’ [49] Although I think in context it is clear that he is encouraging people to give to poor monks, I see no claim whatsoever that this ‘supersedes’ the commandment to help the ‘voluntary poor’.</i><br /><br />Though I can't refer to 'context', since I don't have the source, when I read 'Eagerness to serve holy people...', I'm seeing no superiority of the condition of those who have renounced. This giving is referred to as 'reverence for Christ', while the other makes one a 'companion of Christ'; the latter of these I find to be the superior state. Am I wrong here?Andreas Houposhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02279848515954071078noreply@blogger.com